Icons Gaming
LOGIN/REGISTER
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 108
  1. #1
    Treyarch Design Director
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Universal Ruleset

    Hello,

    This is perhaps the closest we've been to a universal rule set across sites and the game itself. It's our intention to finalize this in-time for Champions Series, Season 3.

    We have 3 masters at work.

    1. Competitive players. I'm including "pro" players, GB players, iCN folks all into this same bucket.
    2. Show producers/promoters. They need eyeballs and high stream counts. Machinima VS, MLG, and others fall into this category. Icons as well.
    3. The developer. That would be us. We need a merge between public games and competitive style gaming. The more we spread the player population the harder everything is (matchmaking, game tuning, feature-needs, design, the works.)


    Some of you are both 1 and 2, but none of you are all 3. We are 3 and sometimes 2, but never 1.

    So where these all meet is where it gets complicated.

    These are generically accepted banned items across the tournaments done so far. The FaL Select Fire thing is a non-issue as it can get tuned.

    Scorestreaks
    • UAV
    • Counter UAV
    • Guardian
    • Care Package

    Weapons
    1. RPG
    2. SMAW

    Equipment
    • Bouncing Betty
    • Shock Charge
    • Tactical Insertion

    Perks
    • Ghost (which seems pointlessness to ban if you banned UAV, why would you pick it?)

    Attachments
    • Grenade Launcher


    As far as bans go, that might by the lowest percentage of content banned ever. Which isn't saying all that much.

    The right thing to do would be to allow teams to have 1 or more votes for content restrictions for each match type they play - but that feature is well beyond the scope of what we can do right now.

    Nonetheless, when I look at it objectively, we still have some [small] victories.

    You've banned less. So we support you more (in-game features & promotion). The stream viewers go up.

    You seeing how this works, yet?

    We are not banning the FaL, but we will tune it. We need Assault Rifles in this mix badly.

    I need something else from you to keep this going.

    From a viewing experience, 3 game modes are going to wear thin very quickly. What's it going to take to get Domination back in this mix. It's unfortunate that it's not played at the highest competitive levels. Domination is a magnitude more popular in pubs than Capture the Flag.

    You should be thinking about switching it out or adding it on top of.

    I can't yet explain fully explain why a finalized set of published restrictions, and game modes variety, are so important other than to tell you that you will WANT Season 3 of Champions to be something we are both happy with because it will largely determine your entire year.

    We have just over a week to work this out. Let's go.

    Vahn
    Last edited by Vahn; 01-11-2013 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    63
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    I completely agree and I love the support you're giving us Vahn <3 As on the game, you want more Assault Rifles and I would love that, but it seems they're very inconsistent, m8 for example, sometimes can be 1-2 burst others 3-4.As in past CoDs burst weapons were always a for sure 1-2 burst. People strayed away from it and went with the automatic FAL, what we saw with the FAL was it was so strong up close, not sure if fire rate or hip fire spread really made it what it was, I didn't use it much. Problem with Domination is spawns, if a team has both A and B control and they decide to push for a 3 cap the enemy team should still spawn C, what we saw in CoD4, instead once you push C the enemy team spawns A, yes I know this is mainly because you don't want to promote spawn trapping in pubs. The other problem with dom is nade spots and really promotion of slow gameplay, I think we've strayed away because at the moment it doesn't seem to be spectator friendly

  3. #3
    Pro Player CeNSoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I think the ruleset we have grown accustomed to is working well. I was not a supporter of scorestreaks in the beginning but they've grown on me. As far as the rules you're testing, I believe claymores MUST go. At least for Search and Destroy. They basically watch a certain area of the map (flank) for a team, making a team's objective to heart-aim one alley or a door for 90 seconds.

    I also believe CTF plays too slow in this game. In Black Ops it was perfect, but for some reason it just doesn't play well in Black Ops 2. I'd rather see us try demolition or domination, but for some reason none of the pros have given it a shot. In the past Call of Dutys, (Black Ops) spectators would complain that domination was too boring to watch. I think primarily the reason we don't play domination is because of the spawns. In certain maps, for example Turbine, (which would never be used in competitive) when you have the A and B flag and you die, you spawn in the back of A, giving the other team pretty much control over the middle flag. If you have the middle and your spawn flag, you should spawn generally close to both flags. Not sure if this problem has been addressed, but it would defiantly make Domination more of a complete, competitive mode.

    Finally, sensor grenades. I understand you can counter them with cold-blooded, but they're just so cheap. It doesn't make the game any more entertaining (in my opinion) and it takes away from the skill. Also, the millimeter scanner. At UMG Chicago when I played for Team EnVyUs, we had a designed strategy on SnD Aftermath that we would smoke and rush the B bomb and I would plant. When I died from the enemy team and watched the kill cam, he was sitting behind a pillar with his millimeter scanner aimed in on the bomb. There's no perks that I am aware of that counters that. It's too cheap.

    That's my thoughts on the game so far. It's the best competitive cod I've played to date. However, one thing I think that needs the biggest fix, if it's even possible, is lag compensation. Online scrims aren't the same anymore. The fact that I get first shot on 90% of my head-to-head 1 vs 1 gunfights and lose about 75% of them due to lag comp is just atrocious. I'm not trying to sound cocky, but it's just the truth. This happens to almost everyone that I've watched play the game too. It's as if we're all in the same lobby playing against each other, but at different time intervals. For example, one player is .3 seconds ahead of the other, giving them a .3 second advantage in any situation throughout the game. If there's any way to fix this issue, the game would run so much better for online tournaments.

    I understand you're supporting us a lot and I appreciate everything you're doing. These are just my thoughts on everything regarding this game and how to increase skill gap between players and more entertaining at the same time.

  4. #4
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    63
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Also for a Universal ruleset it's always going to be tough with different people wanting different things NA/EU. And a bit more on ARs, if m27 was buffed a bit, I think that gun would be one of the best guns in the game, love the accuracy on that thing!
    Last edited by MerK; 01-11-2013 at 12:37 PM.

  5. #5
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    58
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    I'd be all for Domination coming back with Flak Jacket now in play. That would seem to solve any and all nadespot problems and force players to come out and shoot others off flags, instead of nading, I would assume. I never really had a problem with the spawn system in Bops1. Only other thing is that Dom can produce some pretty anti-climactic endings if not played between two very evenly-skilled teams. Can't speak for everyone else, though.

    The FAL could be playable if it was less viable at close range imo. Either increasing the spread of hipfire or slowing down the fire rate just a tad would do that I think.

  6. #6
    Pro Player CeNSoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MerK View Post
    Also for a Universal ruleset you're going to really have to nail the Europeans they love to ban things, even though I love them! And a bit more on ARs, if m27 was buffed a bit, I think that gun would be one of the best guns in the game, love the accuracy on that thing!
    I agree with MerK. SMGs have a decent variety (MSMC, PDW, Skorpion) but ARs don't. If you can make the game playable for a variety of ARs, the game would be more entertaining. Perfect example is MW2 (ACR, FAMAS, SCAR, TAR)

  7. #7
    Pro Player parasite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MerK View Post
    I completely agree and I love the support you're giving us Vahn <3 As on the game, you want more Assault Rifles and I would love that, but it seems they're very inconsistent, m8 for example, sometimes can be 1-2 burst others 3-4.As in past CoDs burst weapons were always a for sure 1-2 burst. People strayed away from it and went with the automatic FAL, what we saw with the FAL was it was so strong up close, not sure if fire rate or hip fire spread really made it what it was, I didn't use it much. Problem with Domination is spawns, if a team has both A and B control and they decide to push for a 3 cap the enemy team should still spawn C, what we saw in CoD4, instead once you push C the enemy team spawns A, yes I know this is mainly because you don't want to promote spawn trapping in pubs. The other problem with dom is nade spots and really promotion of slow gameplay, I think we've strayed away because at the moment it doesn't seem to be spectator friendly
    i agree 100 percent. It just is way to slow. It promotes camping the objective. It isn't fun for the spectator or the viewer. Dom is popular in the public seen simply because they play it differently then we do. A Lot of youtubers play dom because it is better for getting high kill game plays and big score streaks which is what most pub viewers enjoy watching. We on the other hand play it to win. And if that means camping in a corner waiting for someone to hop on an objective we will do it. Hence why it is so slow paced

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CeNSoR View Post
    I agree with MerK. SMGs have a decent variety (MSMC, PDW, Skorpion) but ARs don't. If you can make the game playable for a variety of ARs, the game would be more entertaining. Perfect example is MW2 (ACR, FAMAS, SCAR, TAR)
    I agree with both MerK and CeNSoR in regards to SMG's and AR's.

    If domination does in fact come back that would leave us with 4 gametypes, so in a best of 5 which gametype would have 2 and the other 3 would have 1? Or do we switch out CTF with DOM since CTF plays so much slower on this game and it might be more fun to play and for viewers to watch?

  9. #9
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    63
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    If we do have more game types, we can have a veto system, where two team captains choose before the game, you see this in sc2 on deciding maps, not sure how it would work with game types and what not, but that is an option! The only problem with this is you would see more maps than others, for example, I can almost guarantee if we had a veto system you would never see a hijacked on hardpoint

  10. #10
    Pro Player CeNSoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Maybe nerf frag grenades a bit? The blast radius is too wide. If grenades weren't as effective, the game would play better because more players would decide not to use flak jacket, making them prone to grenades. Meaning, more players would use grenades. It would give the game another element, which is something the players and viewers both like.

    Black Ops grenades were perfect. Not too strong, not too weak, perfect blast radius.

  11. #11
    Pro Player parasite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    BTW ban claymores. Again they ruin the instinctive pl;ay of a gamer. Although they may not be used to kill. Consider most people use flck jacket. They give away positioning which ruins the surprise element of the game.

  12. #12
    The Guy outside every venue that no1 knows
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    53
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    I actually agree with claymores being banned. They dumb down the game in the sense than you don't have to out smart the other team anymore. You can just place one down on a flank and know when they are going to be coming.

  13. #13
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    63
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    And any update on the pro level in league play? I want that

  14. #14
    The Guy outside every venue that no1 knows
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    53
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MerK View Post
    And any update on the pro level in league play? I want that
    I just want the M27 buffed ;]

  15. #15
    E-Sports advisor at Treyarch hastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    9
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MerK View Post
    The other problem with dom is nade spots and really promotion of slow gameplay, I think we've strayed away because at the moment it doesn't seem to be spectator friendly
    The Tactical Mask/Flak Jacket/Smoke Grenade Combo really helps with capping Dom flags in Black Ops 2. Your objective players shouldn't have a problem with nade spots so much here.

  16. #16
    Pro Player nadeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    45
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    In my opinion, bans are somewhat needed for optimal competitive settings.

    For example, in S&D, most explosive lethals have to go. Claymores, C4s, and bouncing betties not only slow down gameplay to an absurd degree, but they also change the entire playstyle of the game and this leads to stale matches and no entertainment. Players are unable to rush or try and make a smart play through the opponents spawn because they'll just rush into a claymore. Obviously players will equip flak jacket, but I believe using those lethals as a glorified motion censor is more valuable then anything.

    I am completely open to domination as a 4th gametype but just like Merk said above, the spawns don't make much sense on a competitive level. Of course they are optimal in public match settings to reduce spawn killing, but this just doesn't work well for competitive. Teams are not rewarded for 2 capping the other team and pushing for the 3rd domination point or spawn trapping.

  17. #17
    Former Co-Owner
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    6,185
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    First of all, I know I speak for all of us when I say that we really appreciate you guys making competitive play a priority. My place in this community currently isn't one that allows me to make educated posts about which weapons should be balanced, what modes should be played, etc. However, I feel like I can contribute to this discussion in another way.

    Like a lot of other people, I follow other competitive games in addition to Call of Duty. I'd like to make a quick point regarding the three things outside of the games themselves that seem to be necessary for a game to be successful on a large-scale in a competitive world.


    1. The developer is always the ultimate authority on rules.
    2. There is always a two-way communication channel between the competitive players and the developers.
    3. Aggressive tuning that directly changes how the game is played to affect:
      1. balance
      2. the diversity of play and the viability of "alternatives"
      3. viewability


    Aside from the game itself being worthy, these principles always seem to apply to successful, competitive games, regardless of genre.

    For the first time in the series, I think we're really close to being able to check all of these things off of the list. I'm excited to see the result.


  18. #18

    Default

    First off I want to thank you for being so supportive of our community and actually reaching out to us for our opinions. It will take a collaborative effort to make this work perfectly and I think we are taking the right steps to finally make this happen.

    The Assault Rifles in the game are unbalanced. The FAL needs to be tuned badly. The FAL eliminated all other ARs in competitive play. In Search and Destroy you would sometimes even see 8 FALs on the map. It is far too effective close range for a traditional semi-auto AR. The M8 is a great weapon but is sometimes far too inconsistent. Like Merk stated it can be a 1-2 burst and sometimes a 3-4 burst kill. However, I noticed that when the FAL SF got banned many people started using the M8 and AN-94. These two weapons have been prevalent in scrims in the past few days. I believe if the FAL is tuned that we can see it in competitive play along with these two weapons and have a set variety of assault rifles.

    As for domination, I can see it being a competitive gametype if the spawns are fixed. The spawns sometimes seem sporadic when trying to make a controlled push. There needs to be set spawns so a team can strategize around them. The split and sporadic spawns on domination has makes teams rely heavily on luck. If the spawns are fixed I can see it being the great gametype it once was. With the addition of flak jacket and tactical mask this gametype could shine. We could see fast action and controlled set-ups. Like I said I can see it but it definitely needs some developer work.

    We also need Claymores banned. Any specialty explosive equipment makes the game very slow. It can sometimes allow a team to control a side of a map without even being there. It makes the gameplay slower and sometimes unbalanced depending on the map/side.

    All in all I am glad we are having this discussion. I think that if we can work on some of the things stated in this thread we can have a perfect ruleset for future events. It is IMPERATIVE that the champions series rules are the STANDARD for ALL major tournaments and leagues in the world. We need a unified ruleset across the globe to grow as a community.

  19. #19
    E-Sports advisor at Treyarch hastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    9
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Differences between the typical NA and EU rulesets are detailed below. EU changes are highlighted in Red. These are the main differences we need to discuss and find concessions or comprises on. It's really not too much to handle. We're really close to finding some common ground for the first time in the history of competitive Call of Duty. Let's not get too eager to remove things and tweak things if we don't have to.

    Scorestreaks
    UAV
    Counter UAV
    Guardian
    Care Package
    VSAT

    Weapons
    RPG
    SMAW
    All Shotguns

    Equipment
    Bouncing Betty
    Shock Charge
    Tactical Insertion
    C4 (most NA players agree on this ban)
    Claymore (most NA players also agree on this ban)

    Perks
    Ghost (which seems pointlessness to ban if you banned UAV, why would you pick it?) (If it is useless to players, it is removed to prevent confusion)
    Awareness
    Hardline

    Attachments
    Grenade Launcher
    Laser Sight
    MMS
    Last edited by hastro; 01-11-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  20. #20
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    282
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    I like claymores. The only thing about domination is you spawn soooooo far away from the middle of the map. Domination isn't bad because of nadespots because you can use Flackjacket. From playing the iCns Demolition seems to > Domination but I'm down for anything to move forward.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hastro View Post
    Differences between the typical NA and EU rulesets are detailed below. EU changes are highlighted in Red. These are the main differences we need to discuss and find concessions or comprises on. It's really not too much to handle. We're really close to finding some common ground for the first time in the history of competitive Call of Duty. Let's not get too eager to remove things and tweak things if we don't have to.

    Scorestreaks
    UAV
    Counter UAV
    Guardian
    Care Package
    VSAT

    Weapons
    RPG
    SMAW
    All Shotguns

    Equipment
    Bouncing Betty
    Shock Charge
    Tactical Insertion
    C4 (most NA players agree on this ban)
    Claymore (most NA players also agree on this ban)

    Perks
    Ghost (which seems pointlessness to ban if you banned UAV, why would you pick it?) (If it is useless to players, it is removed to prevent confusion)
    Awareness

    Attachments
    Grenade Launcher
    Laser Sight
    I definitely agree with the banning of shotguns, C4, and Claymores. Shotguns ruin Hijacked HP, and C4 and Claymores definitely screw up SnD strategies. As for Laser Sight and VSAT, I see no harm in allowing them into competitive, you have to earn your VSAT.

  22. #22
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    282
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Shotguns are fun as hell to use and everyone loves watching people dominate with them.

  23. #23
    Who's this noob?
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Hey guys, as an EU pro what I say is probably going to be quite representative of the EU communities thoughts on all this. First off I'd like to say that although the EU community can seem misguided we have exactly the same hopes for CoD and we're just as grateful for the work Treyarch has put in. As a community we're somewhat 'notorious' for being ban happy and to be honest we just prioritise competitive play to what the average stream viewer apparently wants to watch. We've already defied pretty much a third of the community by adapting our rule set to match the current NA one with some slight tweaks here and there which shows we're willing to try new things and do what's necessary to get to where everyone wants to be. However I have some opinions which should probably be considered.

    In my utmost opinion a rule set isn't important at all and isn't what we should even be discussing, I don't think it'll make a difference to viewership of competitive Call of Duty at all or to the depth of growth we'll experience this year. If you want to be bringing competitive CoD to a wider audience you simply need to be promoting the hell out of it, that means more than just tweets every now and again, that means brandishing every tournament and pro stream on the actual CoD game and letting everyone who plays the game see rather than those with a twitter account. Youtube videos would be pretty effective as well. However we've already come to a conclusion to this argument so I'll just leave that at that. If we're going to discuss rules then so be it.

    In terms of things like Claymores, bouncing betties, sensor grenades and even shotguns, they have no place in competitive. They're pretty random and take out lots of factors of games and end up making them pretty dull if I'm honest, the game becomes slow and unoriginal. Viewers I take it are going to be wanting to watch fast paced exciting gameplay, not slow moving plays that you've seen 100x over.

    About Domi, I agree with other posts in that it's just not that viable for competitive. Not only do the spawns not work too greatly but the maps just aren't brilliant either, not to mention that SS will just make it completely impossible. I think Demolition has been majorly overlooked, from what I've seen it works very well and all that would need changing is the overtime, perhaps to something like the team with most kills picks what side they want. From playing Demo on MW2 and Black Ops 1 Demo is probably one of the tensest and fast paced game modes going and it seems to work fine on this game.

    What we also need to remember is that CoD isn't a game created for competitive, and that competitive rules have existed for years now, that isn't something you can really just break. Sure a compromise needs to exist and I think that's what we're doing now but you have to factor that although the game has to be entertaining and relate viewers but it also has to attract players who want to play the game, which you get through keeping it competitive and relatively skillful.

    To reiterate the EU community as a whole is just as eager to get on board with everyone, personally I am incredibly excited for what the year has to bring but I'm not entirely convinced. EGL has received over 100 teams at previous events and averages about 90 per event, streams from French players like Gotaga playing for Millenium have achieved up to 40k views before, our community has existed for years and is just as developed if not more than the current NA scene. I feel like we need to be involved a tiny more because although we can be difficult at times and we have different opinions we're definitely a huge part of this and debate with all parties is what gets you to perfection. I realise that MLG is probably going to be the powerhouse of CoD this year and that doesn't involve EU at all but EGL has just as much potential. You should be checking out www.Decerto.net - the hub for EU competitive CoD, and you should engage with us a tiny bit more, we shouldn't be a shadow. There'll probably even be a few EU teams at MLG events this year.

    Just to clarify this isn't really a rant and I'm not upset at all, It's simply my opinion. Thanks for everything once again It's great to see discussions like this even existing
    Last edited by Jake-ukpfc; 01-11-2013 at 01:58 PM.

  24. #24
    Founder/Owner
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,312
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Lets say this was our rule set today, we would be back to where we were a couple of weeks ago. So my main issue, is the issues that we have encountered over the last couple of weeks of tournaments. Below is my slight concerns

    We had banned Hardline - as you saw it was soooo easy to get killstreaks (specifically a vsat, which controlled the game a bit 2 much for one team) So i think its a choice basically between Hardline OR VSats

    C4 & Claymore - C4 is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be..with flak jacket its very similar to throwing a grenade so not much of a concern but above in this thread somebody states how claymores main issue is that it kills the element of surprise, especially in SND where teams dont have to watch the flank they can just set a claymore to notify them if somebody is flanking. (Though u could just throw EMP nades at them)

    Laser Sight, Akimbo KAP40- I dont even know why Laser sight was ever considered being banned its not OP most players dont even use it because they are capable of hip firing without training wheels & it creates bad habits & hurts you because you think u can hip fire everything (u cant). Akimbo Kap40's are a large concern as we have seen people run around using them as a primary & destroying SMG's close range.

    Last but not least is Shotguns- alot of people complain about them but in reality u could make the same complaint for an AR in any long range situation. Shotguns are ment to dominate close range & put u at a huge disadvantage short range & thats what they do - sure theres 2-3 HP's out of the 30 locations thru the 6 maps we play that shotguns dominate but that just brings another aspect of the game into play....when u go underground on hijacked...have a shotgun ready - its not that complicated :P

    im sure i made tons of grammatical errors & my post isnt as pretty as vahn or stros but atleast its not as ugly as fwiz
    Glad to see so many people coming together to make sure as many of the seperate COD communities are on the same page with something so important! The growth inside the community is whats important to me, seeing top players from top teams get along & be on the same page trying to move forward TOGETHER is something we have needed for a LONG time<3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fwiz View Post
    Me and eGo are bum buddies, but everyone thinks we hate eachother. We are the white gaming nerds of 2Pac and Biggie.
    These opinions are my own and do not reflect the positions of 360icons.

  25. #25
    Who's this noob?
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Oops I forgot WE NEED 10 CLASSES

    Thank you

  26. #26
    Who's this noob?
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I don't want to speak entirely on behalf of the whole of Europe, but a large number of pros I've spoken to mirror my opinions here.

    Firstly, Domination, in terms of the sheer quantity of players who play in that mode on a casual level, could lead to more players playing competitive, but then again there's no solid evidence that this will be the case. I was always under the impression that people play that mode because it's very easy to get kills. Since this thread went up a few of the top EU players have basically expressed the same opinion.

    When you talk in an effort to move players from general public games into League Play then yeah, that might work. Getting more players to watch a stream won't necessarily work. We've got no evidence at all to support the fact that the inclusion of Domination would mean more stream viewers. If we take on Domination without a trial period, we risk taking on a fairly dull game mode. Going back to CoD4, the spawns worked better but even then, if there were better options on game modes we may not have even supported Domination to start with. It's one of the least entertaining modes to watch. If it were to be included then I think we'd need a change of spawns implemented if that was possible.

    I think I can speak on behalf of everyone in Europe when I say we don't want to see the likes of C4 and Claymores being included.

    I also don't necessarily agree that three game modes is too few. Other popular gaming titles have survived on one game mode for years. There's lots of elements of production and leagues and broadcasters also have a responsibility to make their live streams and VoD content interesting enough to watch on a continual basis. If not we risk including more less competitive modes in an effort to drive more traffic to streams, for a theory that has no solid evidence.

    In Europe the general the response to Score Streaks has become increasingly favourable. There are a number of players who are still against the move and feel like we're dumbing down too much but in general, I think the vast, vast majority will move to this providing we maintain a few of the key restrictions.

    The Shotguns we're also unsure about right now. If these weapons could be modified a bit to make them less ridiculous then that would be good. To quote someone from our 'Rules Council', "Shotguns were by far the most complained about aspect of our BETA rules". The general census on the Vsat is that it more or less eliminates the need for team work/communications although speaking to a number of the players, a few feel they could live with that although the majority would much prefer to see it removed. Finally the Laser Sight is banned right now as well. From my own point of view I've got to ask if something like this has a place in a competitive Ruleset at all? It's too easy to use. I don't think it's a deal breaker really though. There are definitely worse things in the existing NA Ruleset. The Shotguns, Vsat and Laser Sight are all banned right now in the European/Decerto v2.0 BETA rules.

    You can view the entire Decerto BETA Rule here: http://www.decerto.net/v4/index.php?...s-only.121893/

    Obviously we've got a strong tradition of banning more weapons/equipment etc than the NA scene. This has served us well so far and we've seen continued expansion of our community since Call of Duty 4. That being said, we're willing to compromise this time in order to ensure that we're all reading from the same song page. Hopefully this will help to drive the numbers up in League Play also.

    On a side note, advertisement of our leagues, tournaments and LANs wouldn't go amiss in the long run. I think a few tweaks to the League Play system itself could improve numbers. If there were to be more prominence on your level/league in general then more people would strive to increase their level because it would become more of a point of pride. I think that in itself could actually have almost as big of a positive effect on the numbers in League Play than the whole concept of a united Ruleset.

    For those unfamiliar with me, I'm not a pro but I am one of the main guys behind EGL and I part own Decerto.net.

  27. #27

    Default

    Hey guys another EU Pro here and just want to give maybe a slightly different opinion to other Europeans.

    I think now that the Eu scene has adopted Score-Streaks albeit only in beta at the moment, i think that we are certainly taking massive steps towards a universal ruleset, which lets be honest, its what all the top players seem to want. I think if it came down to a few concessions such as Laser-Sight and Shotguns then there might be movement from both parties, personally i dont see much of a problem with either to be honest. I think most people biggest problem with things like shotguns is a mentality of "Well we never had them in a previous game" but that needs to change.

    Vahn you asked if there was anything we could suggest that could bring domination in for competitive play? What about having separate spawns for publics and league play? For example making it that teams can be spawn locked in competitive play but not in publics? I dont know how feasible that is to be honest. if it was done i know id certainly be more than up for trying it.

    One of the biggest let downs at the moment is that previous to the split in the rules, EU and NA teams could play against each other on a (disregarding connection issues) even playing field. That is something that is now not happening at all.

    On a final note, just to reiterate a point that the two people from the EU made above me. I think that more promotion could be done to the public to showcase that there are pro-players streaming the game at the moment and maybe "Hey check out pro player ******* hes playing league play" things like that are going to highlight to a massive audience that their is a competitive scene for this game, and by watching it they might learn something or get better? Just a thought.
    Last edited by Mak; 01-11-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  28. #28
    Who's this noob?
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I agree with some of your points Mak and I'm not basing this just on your post but isn't it very contradictory to say things like "Let's have different spawns in domi for league and publics" yet we're making a rule set that is similar to public settings for the specific purpose of attracting viewers.

  29. #29
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MerK View Post
    I completely agree and I love the support you're giving us Vahn <3 As on the game, you want more Assault Rifles and I would love that, but it seems they're very inconsistent, m8 for example, sometimes can be 1-2 burst others 3-4.As in past CoDs burst weapons were always a for sure 1-2 burst. People strayed away from it and went with the automatic FAL, what we saw with the FAL was it was so strong up close, not sure if fire rate or hip fire spread really made it what it was, I didn't use it much. Problem with Domination is spawns, if a team has both A and B control and they decide to push for a 3 cap the enemy team should still spawn C, what we saw in CoD4, instead once you push C the enemy team spawns A, yes I know this is mainly because you don't want to promote spawn trapping in pubs. The other problem with dom is nade spots and really promotion of slow gameplay, I think we've strayed away because at the moment it doesn't seem to be spectator friendly
    If we want more AR's why are we banning select fire for the FAL? Doesn't make sense to me also we need to address the VSAT issue

  30. #30

    Default

    No, im assuming that Vahns whole "Universal Ruleset" post is based around that if we can agreed to a ruleset that he is also happy with, then he will implement it into league play. Thus making it public rules.

  31. #31
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    If we ban ghost how are we going to counter VSAT?

  32. #32

    Default

    Being a competitive coach that loves playing Domination in pubs for competitive reasons I do have a suggestion to not make Domination dull. A solution always lays in stating the problem correctly. Imho I think Domination in competitive is mainly dull due to a team able to assign all resources (4 members in competitive) to keeping domination point B. The opponents trying to get point B back are fighting an uphill battle that is almost impossible to overcome. Due to "point B is being taken by enemy" sound and flashing signals, it makes it fairly easy to prevent losing point B.

    So, how to take some of the resources away of the dominating team on keeping point B? That would be to have a mechanism that makes the dominating team to assign some resources to keeping point A. For if one or even two members of the dominating team need to attend to keeping point A, it makes it more likely for the underdog being able to overtake point B.

    The most extreme form of automatically losing control over a point is shown in HardPoint; you need to be in a point continuously. This would be overkill on Domination. So we need to find a balanced way to "lose control over a captured point". Many things would be able to work, but i suggest this: after a period of 20 secs point A starts ringing/flashing during 5 secs after which you are losing this point if your not staying in it for another 5 secs or the usual way of capturing a point). This would force at least one player of the dominating team to be committed in keeping point A and thus giving the underdog team a chance to overthrow domination on point B.

    The time-periods of keeping and recapturing the domination points should be parameters to be set in custom games for competitive fine-tuning.

    The goal for many in playing pubs Domination would stay the same; those aiming to get high number of kills get even more playtime in getting there high numbers.

    To summarize:
    1. after 20 seconds a captured point starts ringing and flashing for 5 seconds as a warning.
    2. when nothing is done after those 5 seconds a domination point is lost.
    3. when during this 5 seconds warning the point is re-affirmed by at least one member the point stays under control.

    Effects:
    1. this would shift the competitive focus from spawn-trapping and easy one-point-B-control to what domination should really be: being spread out over a larger area to gain more points than your opponent.
    2. public players playing domination for large number of kills are not affected by it
    3. public players playing Domination with a competitive mindset have an extra incentive in playing this game-mode.

  33. #33
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    We are banning the least amount of things possible. Laser sight and shotgun aren't OP only time shotgun comes into play is hijacked and its fun for the play and spectator

  34. #34
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I agree with this post but I want hardline to make a comeback and we should ban VSATs. With hardline banned everyone just uses flak jacket so nades are pointless

  35. #35
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Lets also address the EMP issue. It lasts for 15 seconds and has a huge radius that goes through walls and effects people also when you throw an EMP you get 50 points if your teammate kills the person ( assist ) EMPs were created to damage enemy equipment but now people use it because its the most OP tactical. It literally stuns you when running even with ( hard wired ) and has a huge radius with no boundaries ( walls and buildings ) it needs to be nerfed asap

  36. #36

    Default

    I agree with PHiZZURP. EMPS MUST BE NERFED!!!!!!!!!!!! They are the MOST OP thing in the game and MUST BE ADDRESSED!

  37. #37
    Who's this noob? xMadeInBrazil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Hello all,

    I would like to represent the Brazilian community as we have a growing number of competitive Call of Duty players who take this very seriously. I'll go straight to the point and give you our thoughts on possible bans.

    BANS:
    SCORESTREAKS
    We agree with the EU rules and the SS below should be banned:
    UAV
    Counter UAV
    Guardian
    Care Package
    VSAT (It promotes camping which could have a negative impact on livestreams, and is extremely overpowered in most game types)

    EQUIPMENT
    Bouncing Betty
    Shock Charge
    Tactical Insertion
    C4
    Claymore

    -These items become overpowered in game types such as Domination, CTF and S&D for obvious reasons.

    ATTACHMENTS
    Grenade Launcher
    MMS

    And the only perk that could be banned to prevent any confusion would be Ghost. Even though it won't have an impact on most, it would help new players in setting up for their first League Play matches.

    We're really looking forward to having these universal rules and appreciate everyone's input from all over the world.

    Thank you Paul for allowing me to post here and to everyone else who is helping the COD community.

    Gustavo "Made" Costa

  38. #38
    Former Co-Owner
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    6,185
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    This is now the United Nations of gaming.


  39. #39
    Pro Player Rambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    219
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahn View Post
    Hello,

    This is perhaps the closest we've been to a universal rule set across sites and the game itself. It's our intention to finalize this in-time for Champions Series, Season 3.

    We have 3 masters at work.

    1. Competitive players. I'm including "pro" players, GB players, iCN folks all into this same bucket.
    2. Show producers/promoters. They need eyeballs and high stream counts. Machinima VS, MLG, and others fall into this category. Icons as well.
    3. The developer. That would be us. We need a merge between public games and competitive style gaming. The more we spread the player population the harder everything is (matchmaking, game tuning, feature-needs, design, the works.)


    Some of you are both 1 and 2, but none of you are all 3. We are 3 and sometimes 2, but never 1.

    So where these all meet is where it gets complicated.

    These are generically accepted banned items across the tournaments done so far. The FaL Select Fire thing is a non-issue as it can get tuned.

    Scorestreaks
    • UAV
    • Counter UAV
    • Guardian
    • Care Package

    Weapons
    1. RPG
    2. SMAW

    Equipment
    • Bouncing Betty
    • Shock Charge
    • Tactical Insertion

    Perks
    • Ghost (which seems pointlessness to ban if you banned UAV, why would you pick it?)

    Attachments
    • Grenade Launcher


    As far as bans go, that might by the lowest percentage of content banned ever. Which isn't saying all that much.

    The right thing to do would be to allow teams to have 1 or more votes for content restrictions for each match type they play - but that feature is well beyond the scope of what we can do right now.

    Nonetheless, when I look at it objectively, we still have some [small] victories.

    You've banned less. So we support you more (in-game features & promotion). The stream viewers go up.

    You seeing how this works, yet?

    We are not banning the FaL, but we will tune it. We need Assault Rifles in this mix badly.

    I need something else from you to keep this going.

    From a viewing experience, 3 game modes are going to wear thin very quickly. What's it going to take to get Domination back in this mix. It's unfortunate that it's not played at the highest competitive levels. Domination is a magnitude more popular in pubs than Capture the Flag.

    You should be thinking about switching it out or adding it on top of.

    I can't yet explain fully explain why a finalized set of published restrictions, and game modes variety, are so important other than to tell you that you will WANT Season 3 of Champions to be something we are both happy with because it will largely determine your entire year.

    We have just over a week to work this out. Let's go.

    Vahn
    I agree with everything except 2 bans i feel completely necessary that were left out.

    1- Claymores : For the same reasons as the bouncing betty, they allow not only the ability to get kills without much skill set, but they more importantly, allow vision on parts of the map without actually being in the area. They can be used in S&D to cover the back bombsite from flanks, to covering the 2 doors on hi-jacked underground hill, to having 4-5 claymores on your flag once you get a lead in ctf. All elements that do create diversity in some situation, but mostly slow down the gameplay and allow for a player to cover his back with an equipement rather than making him make the right decision as to which area to watch and position himself with his team mates.

    2- Hardline : We recently took it out of our rule set, simply because it makes score streaks much easier to achieve. I love score streaks in our rule set, i feel they make the game loads of fun to watch and play as well. But the hype behind someone getting them with hardline isnt much to go crazy about with how much easier they are to get. You`ll go from a player having to get 4-5 kills in a row with objective play in the mix to get his (Hunterkiller,Hellstorm,lightningStrike) to decreasing that by a few kills, making them much easier to get than they should be.

    I love the pace of the rule set we currently have, requires lot of positioning, is super fun to watch and play, and has the diversity we needed in competitive play to make the fun last!

    Im speaking on both sides of the field as well here, ive casted a fair amount of games as well as played.
    Team XtravaganT

  40. #40
    Pro Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    First off, Vahn, thanks for posting! its great to see the interactivity between the developer and community. I agree with your post as well, anything we can do to help the game grow in my eyes is a plus. My only concern for domination however, is that the spawns are not suitable for competitive play. I would love nothing more than to have domination make a comeback. I feel if domination were to make a comeback and spawns were fixed, it would also be very boring to WATCH as a spectator. I feel like if we were to play domination again, the right maps need to be chosen to make it more enjoyable for the player/spectator and the spawns need to be fixed. Also, as a long time player in our community, I would love NOTHING more than to see a game type such as sabotage to make a comeback. What was the real issue with this game type that forces us to abandon it? Is it fixable? This is a question I feel needs to be answered because coming from a spectator point of view, it was one of the funnest game types to watch teams play in my opinion.


    As for the FAL, the only reason that gun was viable in the first place was because of select fire and the hip fire spread up close. It is too good of a gun when select fire is applied and is the most consistent AR. I feel, however, if you want to make this game AR friendly, you are going to have to go back and do some tuning to other AR's. Why is it we always have 1 AR that is the "one" to use? I feel like the AR's should all be good in their own way, so that other AR's are not neglected.
    Last edited by Moho; 01-11-2013 at 06:28 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •